| For the band, see The Seatbelts.Pretensioners and webclamps
3.Used frequently in older cars, now uncommon except in some rear middle seats.Similar to the lap and sash, but one single continuous length of webbing.Experimental safety belt presented in the Volvo SCC.The lap portion is connected to a belt between the legs and there are two shoulder belts, making a total of five points of attachment to the seat.These belts are used mainly in racing.Some of them even outfitted their cars with seatbelts.Strickland were at the forefront of that demand.Stapp, using a rocket sled and himself as the guinea pig, among others.Griswold and Hugh De Haven.Nils Bohlin of Sweden invented a particular kind of three point seat belt for Volvo, who introduced it in 1959 as standard equipment.Rear seat belts were made standard in 1968.Most seat belts are equipped with locking mechanisms (or inertia reels) that tighten the belt when pulled fast (e.This is implemented with a centrifugal clutch, which engages as the reel spins quickly.Pretensioners preemptively tighten the belt to prevent the occupant from jerking forward in a crash.This reduces the motion of the occupant in a violent crash.Webclamps clamp the webbing in the event of an accident and limit the distance the webbing can spool out (caused by the unused webbing tightening on the central drum of the mechanism) these belts also often incorporate an energy management loop ("rip stitching") which is when the lower part of the webbing is looped and stitched with a special stitching.Although the NHTSA has been urged to deal with this defect it has yet not been properly addressed.Automatic seat belts have fallen out of favor recently, since the airbag became mandatory in many countries.As with adult drivers and passengers, the advent of seat belts was accompanied by calls for their use by child occupants, including legislation requiring such use.It has been claimed that children in adult restraints suffer lower injury risk than unrestrained children.Use of seat belts by expectant mothers
For pregnant mothers, the fetus is protected by a sac full of amniotic fluid.The proper use of a seat belt will divert the pressure points off the sac, and thus the fetus would only be minimally affected.The lap belt should be worn low over the pelvic bones and not against the soft stomach area.Reminder chime and light
In North America and some other parts of the world, cars sold since the early 1970s have included a seat belt light on the dashboard, reminding the driver and passengers to buckle up.Volvos), the seatbelt is connected to the turn signal relay, making clicking sounds constantly until the front passengers are buckled up.This has led many countries to adopt mandatory seat belt wearing laws.Risk compensation
Some have proposed that the number of deaths was influenced by the development of risk compensation, which says that drivers adjust their behaviour in response to the increased sense of personal safety wearing a seat belt provides.Swedish Research and Development for Global Automotive Safety.The Danger of Premature Graduation to Seat Belts for Young Children, Winston FK, Durbin DR, Kallan MJ, Moll EK,, Pediatrics, Vol."Kids at Risk: When Seatbelts are NOT Enough", by Karp H, Reader's Digest (US Edition), November 1999.Nakahara S, Ichikawa M, Wakai S (2003)."Seatbelt legislation in Japan: high risk driver mortality and seatbelt use".The Seatbelts (read more)
1,087,565 plays scrobbled on Last.Since the band is focused mostly on instrumental work, The Seatbelts have no lead singer.After a few years in hibernation, The Seatbelts have regrouped in 2004 to compose the soundtrack of the Cowboy Bebop game, scheduled for an early 2006 release.Many of the members of The Seatbelts have also worked with Kanno and with each other on other projects, as well, and some have even gone on to compose their own work.Are you The Seatbelts?Add this track to your playlist
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Tank!Fantastic music, this is one seriously talented band.No reply, Diggin, Gotta knock a little harder, Blue...Man, what a satisfying group to listen to.Thanks god for Cowboy Bebop introducing me to The Seatbelts.Bebop, The Seatbelts, Steve Conte,Jazz, The Blues, folk, rock, all a big part of my life.The Seatbelts really need to get back together..The Seatbelts is truly what music is about!There is a group on Last.I'm back to take my rightful place at the top of the weekly listeners list!If you'd like to add some events for The Seatbelts then you can do so on this page.Web Site Support
Last.Sign in to get personalized recommendations.Minutes() * 60 + newCurrentTime.Hours() * 3600 + currentTime.See all 2 customer reviews...See all 2 customer reviews...Would you like to update product info or give feedback on images?No one has tagged this product for Amazon search yet.CD, Vitaminless, Cowgirl Ed and Ask DNA.The three that aren't are nothing particularly new and nothing to write home about.The CD is wonderful (like a Bebop fan would expect any less from Yoko Kanno and The Seatbelts by now with their existing body of work) and provides a few changes of pace that might surprise and the softest vocals I've ever heard from Steve Conte.However, a real treasure is the booklet with the CD which chronicles the career of The Seatbelts with mock up album covers and one song noting that it was from a short film about a dog named Ein who meets up with a European lady...Was this review helpful to you?See all 2 customer reviews...Get Down to the Ultimate Groove Session Vol.Music You Should Hear: Artists' PicksWant to know what Norah Jones, Sting, and Il Divo are listening to?Find out in Music You Should Hear, where these and other artists tell you about the music they love.Using your checking account at Amazon.Would you like to update product info or give feedback on images?Is there any other feedback you would like to provide?Track your recent orders.Visit our Help department.You have no recently viewed items or searches.After viewing product detail pages or search results, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in.The task of the seatbelt is to stop you with the car so that your stopping distance is probably 4 or 5 times greater than if you had no seatbelt.When would you be better off not wearing your seatbelt?If he had had his seatbelt on, he would never have been able to jump out at the last second and hang on to the gaurdrail.The presence of an airbag should not be used as justification for not wearing the seatbelt!From Leonard Evans, "The Science of Traffic Safety", The Physics Teacher 26, October 1988, Page 431, Table I.Data on seatbelt effectiveness was obtained by comparing severe accidents in which at least one person was killed.Traffic Accident Data
The U S Department of Transportation keeps data on traffic accidents including the Fatal Accident Reporting System (FARS) with fatalities since 1975 which number over a half million (averaging 45,000 per year in the US).Analysis of such data permits reasonable estimation of factors which influence safety such as vehicle mass and the use of seatbelts.In seatbelt statistics, it must be factored in that persons who choose not to use seatbelts are more likely to have accidents out of a higher general bent toward risk taking.But just the physics of collisions dictates that the occupant of the less massive vehicle is more at risk when a collision does occur.The video has been added to your playlist.This video will appear on your blog shortly.Thank you for flagging this video.Content of this nature is not necessarily prohibited on YouTube, however we will review this video and take action as appropriate.Thank you for sharing this video!Change the value of a comment by clicking on a thumb.Is the chick at the beginning Yano ?After making your selection, copy and paste the embed code above.The code changes based on your selection.Language, fraud, folly, truth, knitting, and growing luminous by eating light.Go to Making Light's front page.This is not to say that all unrestrained traffic accidents are fatals, or that seatbelted folks are invulnerable.Trauma: Life in the ER just before something Really Messy rolls in the door?Then the unrestrained body hits the interior of the vehicle, and starts to slow.You can also expect fractured wrists, arms, and shoulders, from folks trying to brace themselves.Unrestrained driver: side impact.The vehicle went into a snow bank and was drivable from the scene.The driver went into a river and drowned.Unrestrained driver, 40 MPH impact.Really Suck (and not in a good way).Police officers will be able to stop and issue summons to drivers and front seat passengers solely for not wearing their seat belts.Macdonald
I am not a physician.Nothing here is meant to be advice for your particular condition or situation.Seatbelts Save Lives by
James D.As it was nothing happened to us, other than we had to spend the day in Battle Mountain, and I got a painful scrape that took nearly a month to scab properly on my back.Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 12:14 PM:
What makes you say the driver probably would have been killed?Sure, there are accidents where being held in place by a seatbelt puts you in place for an impalement while being thrown out of the vehicle turns out better all around, but still, that isn't the majority of the cases.It's an educational problem, really.The other time he lost control on a curve and went off the road and rolled.Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 12:30 PM:
Where would you rather be: In a burning (or flooding car) and unconscious, or in a burning (or flooding) car, conscious but seatbelted?My state doesn't have a seatbelt law yet.So they're down in the creek and the water is pouring in the windows and they have to get out.Did he regret wearing his seatbelt?As it was, the worst injury he suffered was when the girl next to him stood on his kidney while she was climbing out.Not only do unprotected heads smack into things, but your brain smacks into your skull, or what's left of it.Neither bullets, an axe, nor a sledgehammer produced more significant damage to the helmet than the fall had.The car came to rest a third of a mile down the road, facing the wrong way, with only three wheels able to touch the ground at the same time.And, y'know, the seatbelt thing.Perhaps they simply have thicker heads.Pat Greene ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 12:53 PM:
Umm....So I thank you and my family thanks you.In the classroom side the instructor was talking about helmets (which a student needed the second day, went down on pavement doing 10mph or less, she had just started up when she went down, fortunately had a full face helmet which saved her pretty face, the helmet was scratched all up, I always wear my helmet, jacket, and gloves, even for short rides).The instructor was talking about all those idiots you see who have the helmet in a bungie net on the rear seat of their bike.He asked if we all knew we were going to be in an accident if we would wear the helmet.If you know you're going to be in an accident you don't get on the bike, period.Oddly enough he survived, but in a nursing home until passing just a few years ago.EVER get in my car without a seatbelt and badger passengers until they put theirs on.He said "Yeah, I'm lucky!The True Story of Highway Safety Films.It's the sort of stuff we grew up with, conversations at the dinner table: "...Don't ever drive with your head out the window.She'd wanted to make a point about exactly how angry she was.She'd been wearing a seatbelt and the airbag went off, and other than the uncurable stupidity, she was fine.April 14, 2007, 01:36 PM:
Cars should not do pirouettes.Civic's rear window cut into his face (as he was thrown "clear") has a lot of family very happy that it was two inches thataway, and only a flap of skin, rather than two inches that other way, and his brains spewed onto the highway.If he'd been wearing his seatbelt, he would have been unharmed, as were the other two people in the car.And thus are several more people reminded daily, just looking at his face, that seatbelts are our friends.He was wearing his seatbelt, but the thingy that locks the shoulder strap in an impact didn't work, so he was propelled upward a bit and bumped his head on the roof.If he hadn't been wearing the belt...At car speed he would have broken a lot more than that.So, thanks for this post...I'm a complete bear about seat belts (front and back seat) and don't care how much it annoys people.And if I don't "belt up", my Toyota makes an angry noise until I do.Last time I got a belt that would only have helped if I was as wide as both the seats.RedMolly ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 01:50 PM:
About a year and a half after we graduated from high school, my best friend Kerri and several other kids were driving home after midnight from a Counting Crowes concert.Pacific Conservatory of the Performing Arts.There were over five hundred people at her memorial service.Both of our cars (Toyotas of fairly recent vintage) came with adjustable shoulder belts that you can raise or lower to a more comfortable angle that doesn't collide with your earrings or jawline.The first time I actually used a seatbelt was in driver's ed.To this day, I don't know if my father ever used one.But I got it drilled into me by my (not then) husband, who refused to take it out of park until I was belted in.So it's been ingrained in me now for about 30 years.Ward ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 02:07 PM:
I'm buying a ski helmet this weekend as I've decided I'm serious about skiing.How can you not always wear you seatbelt after that?April 14, 2007, 02:20 PM:
I won't put my car in gear until my belt is on.It's such a reflex, I don't even notice I'm doing it.Jeep and hit a patch of black ice and went into the median, straight at a stand of trees.This way, once the Jeep finished slamming into the tree she was able to open the passenger door, slide out, and then look back at where the steering wheel would have cut her in two.My hunch is that, in an accident, the few inches of positioning won't make much difference, but I've always wondered whether that's correct.Phil Armstrong ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 02:42 PM:
Seat belts are effective at reducing the injurious effects of car crashes.If you believe John Adams (author of Risk) the main effect of seat belts has been to drive vulnerable road users (pedestrians and cyclists) off the roads, in response to the increased risks that drivers (as a group) take when they wear seat belts.Claude Muncey ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 02:46 PM:
I'm extremely insistent and can be rather impolite about having everyone in the car strapped in before the car goes anywhere, including across the parking lot.Somehow (it was never quite clear) the belt popped, the driver side door opened and I flew through it, landing on somebody's front lawn.Sure, seatbelts are the smart thing to do, everybody ought to wear them, but should seatbelt laws be on the books?But when I bought my first used car in 1968 I was happy it had lapbelts.The car was a convertible and it ended up flipped over so they may well have died anyway.Back in college, a few of my more invincible friends would stubbornly refuse to wear a belt.Jules ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 03:10 PM:
The people I boggle at are the drivers who act like my wearing a seatbelt, as a passenger in their car, means I don't think they're a good driver.Seriously, what the hell?Please* don't drag the cycle helmet flame wars here.Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 03:19 PM:
No, I haven't posted about bicycle helmets.Every year the ambulance squad has a bike rodeo and we give away bike helmets.The car ended up sitting on its roof, and my passenger and I were almost completely unhurt, hanging upside down in the seatbelts.This was in a Corvair, which was notoriously unstable in the back end when turning.To this day I don't know if I screwed up the turn, or if the back tires broke loose, resulting in a skid.The statistics are even clearer than on smoking; it's the smart thing to do."He started it with a push; he thought he could stop it with a shove" has always bothered me.It always seems to work.SUV drivers who seem to think they are driving armored tanks in which nothing can happen to them, and therefore drive with less care, if not more outright stupidity, than those of us in random sedans?Espacially if combined with an Airbag it can be dangerous not to wear the belt.....Airbag and the roof of the car...This January, my daughter was crashed into on her way to work.But if I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt, I wouldn't be here to tell you about it.PS: I hope NO ONE will be inspired to try any of the stunts in the second Grindhouse flick!Caroline ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 04:16 PM:
Just had to add to the chorus.My parents trained us so well in seatbelt use that it's just part of the motion of getting into a car, for me.She had broken almost every bone in her body and more than one vertebra.She was in the hospital for months, and in a wheelchair for even longer, and in a neckbrace for longer than that.She said the worst part was that the neckbrace prevented her from reading during all the months she was stuck at home.When I was told that she had been in a serious accident, the world tilted and for five seconds, I was sure the teller was leading up to tell me she was dead.John Houghton ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 04:23 PM:
When I was a teen, and already a compulsive seatbelt user, the car door next to me popped open on a turn, and I calmly reached out and closed it.The car was totaled, but she walked away with whiplash and a small burn from the airbag deploying, because she was wearing her seatbelt.Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 04:31 PM:
Bryan (1), statistical probability comes down overwhelmingly on the side of "wear your seatbelt."Carrie (2), I suspect the safety film Jim has noted as "not safe for Teresa" is the one that demonstrates why your friends should wear their belts in the back seat: unsecured passengers don't just get killed, they kill the other passengers.Tom Mix Wash isn't all that far from where I grew up.Mad (13), is that the same woman who followed a "tour guide" she'd just met into a dark alley in Morocco at night?If so, thanks for the warning.There's not much you can do about a drunk doing 120 mph late at night, except be somewhere else.American roads just aren't engineered for it.That's still faster than anyone but Nevadans has reason to drive, but it would take the fun out of seeing how fast a car will go.Pat (20), if you didn't put him in a cargo net every car trip for the next ten years, you're a candidate for sainthood.You don't often see a car where the side panels have been pulled apart like the chocolate coating on the side of a candy bar.It looks to me like the left rear side got wedged under the front end of the semi and was ground off against the pavement.While phoning the police, and offering to testify, and taking down the contact information for her insurance company?In short, is this woman, who should never again be allowed behind the wheel of a car, still out there on the road?John Stanning (33), we don't have laws requiring us to use seatbelts in buses.Phil Armstrong (43), I'm convinced that the additional safety features have led to an increase in aggressive driving.That was obvious the minute the SUVs hit the highways.But the statistics say fatalities have gone down; so in this one instance, at least, technology has temporarily outstripped stupidity.Basically, you pointed it at a speeding car, pressed the button, and it emitted enough radar signals to set off a radar detector.SUVs hadn't yet become popular).Tell your father I said:
(1.Being belted in greatly increases the chances that the driver will be be awake and alive, and thus able to do what's needed.We all pay for stupid accidents.And by the way, the same goes for people who want to ride without helmets.They'll get queasy if, when they cut down your pants leg, a section of femur falls out onto the ground.The car was in a bad accident, and my cousin sustained head injuries that put him in a coma for more than five years, before he finally died.The rest of the family were even worse victims; I don't think his mother ever recovered from the emotional devastation of watching him lie there for 5 years.April 14, 2007, 04:46 PM:
The only time I skipped wearing by bike helmet in the last 10 years was the day I got doored by a Miata.Luckily no appearent damage.Fatalaties have gone down because traffic density has gone up, reducing average traffic speeds.The little ones are not quite thirty tons, the big articulated ones fifty plus, and all that mass is down low.Never mind that a good third of it is the bridge girder connecting the front and back trucks, and that the thing you hit, right behind the entirely disposable airshell, is the one inch thick square steel plate welded to the front or back of the girder.Clifton Royston ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 04:51 PM:
When I was in junior high, I audited a college intro 'Physics for Poets' kind of class.If you're free falling until you hit the dashboard or windshield, you get your own stopping distance of something under 1 inch, divided between the dashboard's crumple and your skull's crumple.Phil Armstrong ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 04:53 PM:
Oh, plus the aforsaid vulnerable road users have been driven (ahem) off the roads by the increasingly aggressive attitude displayed by car drivers.And yes, I know what cleaning up after the idiots does to people.It's not something I'd wish on an enemy.Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:03 PM:
Phil (79), I can't imagine you're arguing that roll cages, crumple zones, airbags, and improved belt design has had no positive effect on the rate of casualties and fatalities stemming from MVAs.The idea that our measurable reduction in injuries is wholly the result of slower driving due to congestion seems to contradict the thesis that safety measures have only made drivers more aggressive.I've heard of that happening.Geoffrey Kidd ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:04 PM:
OTOH, my wife is alive solely because she WASN'T wearing her seat belt, and she got this information from the paramedics who rescued her, broken pelvis and all.The car itself was squashed so badly that there was room for exactly ONE body, repeat ONE body, in the interior.Both driver and passenger survived, but I don't know how.It tied up traffic nicely for a couple of hours.David Palmer ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:05 PM:
To those who have trouble with the seatbelts riding too high up or down on your shoulder: You should know that in most cars they are adjustable.I've tumbled from bikes and horses enough times to wonder why anyone would not want to wear one.It's not just about their safety.If they say, "No thanks.David Palmer ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:16 PM:
There are examples of people not wearing seatbelts and therefore surviving.The driving habits of individual drivers however are under their control.Even if it's a local commuter service, that'll be about 100 tons traveling at up to 100 miles per hour.And, playing the odds like a rational creature, the seatbelt is always the right bet.It isn't always going to work, in the sense of saving life or preventing injury, but everything is tradeoffs and the tradeoffs available in a violent and chaotic situation such as a car accent are generally pretty sucky.Streetcar driver nearly had a fit before the constable on the corner managed to stop laughing long enough to reassure him that the constable had seen the whole thing.After a century of automobile use, they're still trying to beat out trains at railroad crossings.Talk about your losing proposition.Is it even legal to do a jackrabbit left turn as soon as the light changes?Bruce (83), sorry for being unclear.April 14, 2007, 05:23 PM:
Keeping in mind that everyone ought to wear seatbelts, my concern about seatbelt laws that give police officers the power to pull cars over for suspicion of not wearing a seatbelt is that such a law is in practice the equivalent of giving police officers the power to pull over anyone, anytime, for any reason.To quote Stephen Colbert, "People tell me I'm white, and I believe them because police officers call me 'Sir.Once slipped on it can be slid across the lap to adjust the angle of the shoulder belt.I* don't want to pay the bills for an uninsured macho asshole who thinks he's too cool to wear one...Anecdotally, the only person I ever had whose seatback was fully reclined also had a fractured spine.In the spring of 1999, the King of the S.He wasn't wearing his seatbelt.Phil Armstrong ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:50 PM:
Teresa: Not all no :) But the numbers are down significantly.They shift the injuries around, but they don't seem to change the overall rates.Graydon ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:54 PM:
Teresa at 97
Graydon (80), so that's why there's all that stuff on Spadina?Even with an advanced green signal for the lane next to the transit lane, you have to give the right of way to the thing in the transit lane.Without that, you'd be breaking more laws.April 14, 2007, 05:57 PM:
I've been in four car accidents in my life.Two of those accidents involved other vehicles, which ALSO had only belted people in them, and none of THOSE people got hurt either.Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 05:59 PM:
Inge (102), I've driven on British motorways at speeds I'd never attempt in the US (unless I was out between Winslow and Gallup, and could see empty road three miles ahead of me).Motorways are engineered for higher speeds, and frankly, the drivers are better overall.I've also been on the section of road the Colebrook ambulance squad refers to as "Deadman's Curve," which doesn't look nearly as dangerous as it is.First, I didn't say uninsured motorists.Third, as I mentioned earlier, drivers can wind up having to make critical decisions after the initial impact.Sometimes they get hurt in ways that require permanent ongoing care, in which case it's even more expensive.If I'm going on a long driving trip, I take a length of twine (a long shoelace will do), tie it firmly to the seat belt, then tie it to the shoulder belt so that it bends down a bit in the middle.Doesn't keep me from using it, mind you, but even with the 'comfort pad' it's an irritant.These days I'm driving rented cars, but if I were going to make it a permanent arrangement, I'd sew or rivet the modification to the other belts.I'm going to be driving up to Vancouver on the 24th, so I'd best do this before then.It rolled once and landed upright on the shoulder.Everyone was wearing a seatbelt.The car was totaled, of course.Mythbusters tested the "things on the back shelf" story.The myth was specifically about a tissue box being lethal.They weren't able to confirm that, but anything any heavier would have caused serious injury or death.Look up at the ceiling and imagine being dropped on your head from that distance.Thus, the moral of the story is not that seatbelts don't always save lives.It's that it's better not to be in a car that's about to have another accident or three.Failing convenient teleportation or the ballistic equivalent thereof, if you're in a car during an accident, a seatbelt's the right way to go.EVERY DAMN DAY PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF WRECKED CARS.There's always going to be someone out there who heard of one wreck where blah blah blah.The rest of us, mostly no.Still, the cargo net would have been a good idea if the car had had one.SUVs cause more damage than sedans when they hit people.The grill caught him in the face and head, smashing his upper jaw and causing him to lose several permanent teeth, where a sedan would have hit him much lower.Just in case you haven't heard about this, there are Western safety hats now.How does a broken femur endanger someone's life?There are a couple of ways.If it travels to the lungs, you get a pulmonary embolism.Yes, the Dispatch Center really does call that location "Dead Man's Curve" when calling us away.Steel Bridge is also where I came on a motorcyclist while I was out just driving.Out of radio range from base, there.Eventually another car stopped and asked if I needed any help."Yes, drive up to the Balsams and call 911.Tell them motorcycle accident, head injury, at Steel Bridge."CaseyL ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 07:11 PM:
I've been belting in since there were such things and, yes, it's automatic.It doesn't even feel right, not being belted in.My aunt, who is one of the Best People Ever and whom I love dearly, not only doesn't wear a seatbelt, she is permanently attached to a cell phone."My Car, My Rules" commandment to convince her.If the jagged ends of the bone don't initially nick the femoral artery, the telescoping action may cause them to do it anyway.TomB ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 07:23 PM:
I think the "thrown clear" meme keeps coming up because our monkey brains are very comfortable with the idea of flying through the air.This is very similar to why people drive SUVs.I'm comfortable with wearing seatbelts because I'm not at all claustrophobic, and because I associate seatbelts with memories of my mom buckling us in.It's like knowing someone cares about you, is holding you, and keeping you safe.You thread the lap and shoulder halves of the seatbelt into the buckle and slide it to a position where it pulls the shoulder belt down at the right angle to keep it properly adjusted for you.My wife has the same problem with her car, where the belt wants to either squish her breasts or slowly saw her neck off.Later on, they rerouted the road so it had two 45 degree bends to connect the same sections, but the second bend was farther from the old angle.The other came over the top a bit fast, went airborne, and landed on the first car.There may have been survivors, but I don't remember.Antilock Braking Systems, for instance.It's never just one factor that changes.How could I argue with that?It still totaled my car, and I had a messed up back for a while, but the trooper was shocked I hadn't rolled going across that hill.On the other hand, when I was a teen, I came across (and almost was part of) an accident involving some friends.The driver didn't get much injured, but went into a psych hospital for 6 months or so over his grief and guilt.Yeah, I'm ok with wearing a seatbelt.No, lackwit, vastly better odds that your 8 year old will use it ventilate your toddler.He looked around and then at me and said "where is the driver?".John Houghton ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 08:14 PM:
Posts in this thread need to get an initial time stamp for when you started to type it, which would at least justify the redundant comments.In an accident, critical decisions can occur after the initial impact."John Houghton ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 08:31 PM:
I feel better now, I wasn't the only one still typing and previewing before posting.Teresa Nielsen Hayden ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 08:33 PM:
TomB (135): I have a bad tendency to drive aggressively.But speaking as a sinner, I can tell you what the appeal is in an SUV's higher positioning, and it's got nothing to do with monkey brains.The big bumpers are there to say, "If we have an accident, you'll take a lot more damage than I will."In the meantime, on occasions when I'm forced to drive one, damn but they're fun.Christopher Davis ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 08:41 PM:
I suppose this is now a redundant comment on redundant comments.Macdonald ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 08:41 PM:
Any time you're involved in an accident where your helmet gets pounded, you might consider getting a new helmet even if there's no obvious damage.So, then, what's the answer?Public education campaigns, and everything short of laws, perhaps.But I'm not sure I can support actual laws.TabulaRasa ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 08:51 PM:
Next time your passengers come up with that "thrown clear" story as an excuse for not buckling up, just ask them to jump out of the car while you are cruising at 55mph.Each year in the US 42,000 people die from car crashes.That's out of the 6 million auto accidents reported to the police, or 1 death per 143 car crashes.LifeFlights and ICUs and rehab: for every death there are several near deaths, and then more with moderate injuries...Car Talk in which the brothers Tappet recommended against knitting in the car because the needles could become dangerous in an accident.Science fiction writer Elizabeth Moon (also an EMT) has a funny story about a convertible rollover.Convertible, top down is upside down beside the road."Is it legal in your country to sell vehicles that don't have collapsible steering columns?"Well, not passenger cars; I'm not sure about all motor vehicles.That sounds quite fictional to me.The problem with "stopping it with a shove" is that the load tends to go sideways or, if many parts are involved, many of them keep moving.If killing themselves was the only likely outcome, perhaps.Reality is, of course, that these people often severely injure themselves (or others) and need a lot of care, making a great deal of difficulty and unhappiness for all involved.It's been in law, nationwide, for..."If you drink, then drive, you're a bloody idiot."Kathryn from Sunnyvale ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 09:23 PM:
On the people who lived without a seatbelt, ATCHOAFE WIGTHATS I have thoughts about that*...The people who die without a seatbelt?It's only people like paramedics (or forensics engineers) who actually know the stats, rather than just feeling the stats.There's a reason why the cabin crew do regular seatbelt patrols nowadays.I'll just end up walking instead.Julia Jones ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 09:30 PM:
Rats.Antilock Braking Systems, for instance.Most cars have them these days, yet most drivers I see on wet roads or on ice and snow in the winter seem to be manually pumping the brakes (if they use them at all) when they start to skid, instead of letting the microprocessor do the work.Doug ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 09:34 PM:
I am fairly ambiguous about seat belts, to be honest.But my objection is that we simply don't have enough organs to go 'round.It would be fairly simple to pass a law that equated no seatbelts (or, for motorcycles) into an automatic organ donor in the event the accident produced a corpse with viable organs.She suffered a badly broken upper arm, which I suspect was caused by the seatbelt coming across her arm instead of over her shoulder.She spent three months in a halo brace, and was really not a happy camper for a while, but she survived without permanent disability.Without a seatbelt, she'd have been killed.The fact that most people think it will reduce their normal stopping distance, when it does not, may be the cause of the problem.If so, it would not really be a case of risk compensation so much as simple confusion.Melanie ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 09:59 PM:
Riding without a belt is not worth the risk.Had I not been wearing my seatbelt I would have likely been thrown through the windshield.Remus Shepherd ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 10:02 PM:
My sister was in an accident in her teens.The driver was drunk and rolled the car into a ditch with enough speed for it to flip back out the other side.She had bruised kidneys and a concussion.Two other people in the car had seatbelts on and had minor injuries.April 14, 2007, 10:05 PM:
I think I've posted this before.No one gets driven in my car who isn't properly restrained.April 14, 2007, 10:11 PM:
I don't get people that don't wear seatbelts.When I was 4, I had a favorite playmate, my cousin Carol.Lets her lay across the seat for naps.He also smoked for decades, and a year ago when he learned he had cancer, opted not to get traditional treatment, instead going to spiritual healers.He's now days from death, and still convinced he's healed and just has a "sinus infection."You want to die, fine, but I've lost enough people I love.April 14, 2007, 10:21 PM:
I have a little scar on my chin to remind me to buckle up everytime I get in the car.Plus, I don't allow myself to talk on the cell phone while driving, even though I do have a Bluetooth earphone.If I can't, i just let it go until I can safely pull over.The little car alone had flipped the SUV.The SUV had been waiting at a red light when the car came too fast off of the highway.The SUV's driver was still there, talking with (police?This woman had a stubborn unwillingness to let anyone else's rules rule her.On good dry pavement, ABS actually lengthens stopping distance a bit, but it adds so much control that people don't have the frequent reminders of their tenuous grip on the road from skidding a bit at every hard stop like they used to.Hell, it makes ME complacent, and I know better.Curve signed for 25mph, downhill and to the left, pavement crowned at the center to keep the sringwater from the uphill side of the curve from covering the road.The driver was probably going thirty, at the most, but what pulled them off the road was the extra 200 or so pounds of load on the outside of the turn.My husband and I may, some day, recover from coming around the corner and thinking, for a moment, all the people on the ground were dead.And one more place you need to pay attention to your seatbelt: aircraft.Whorf hypothesis, an insurance company inspector, told a story about how the way people thought and talked about "empty gasoline drums" led them to believe that the drums were not dangerous, whereas, of course, the drums were empty only of most liquid gasoline but were instead fullfull of explosive gasoline vapor.Riding with a drunk driver had been a regular feature of my childhood.When my daughter was 3, I once started the car while she was being buckled in, and she hollered bloody murder.As a special 'reward' for good behaviour, she allowed her three children to ride unrestrained in the back of her station wagon.Back in the day before seat belts, my aunt used to put her arm out in front of whichever one of us was riding shotgun when she needed to slow down or to stop quickly.Jenny Islander ::: (view all by) ::: April 14, 2007, 11:28 PM:
It's true that sometimes the seatbelt won't save your life.There's this thing about old Broncos: They are very flippy even without being jacked up, which his was.And when they do flip, the space between the door handles and the top of the car instantly decreases by about 90 percent.It wouldn't have mattered if he were wearing a seatbelt or not.Thanks for the tip about having seatbelts replace.SUV you're up high, it's that they're BIG.As for SUVs, they give me the creeps.I've only driven them a few times so maybe it's just a lack of experience.In the event of an actual emergency, I don't think I could get an SUV out of danger's way.Since it's possible for engine to shut off while you're driving, I find that pedestrians don't always realize they are walking into the path of my car.Honestly, though, I run into this the most when I'm trying to park the Prius.It was a 110, 115 degree turn onto a steep downgrade; the problem was that if you didn't make it, and managed to get over the wire barrier, you went off a cliff and fell several hundred feet into a deep lake, sploosh.The local cops hated that turn with a mad inhuman passion, in large part because accident reports tended to consist of "we think it was a car and we think it was blue".The engine standby condition: well, I try not to run over people....There are a surprising number of people who can walk through a busy parking lot, or across a street, without looking around them.Especially if you're driving one of those moving vehicles.Your post was nothing new to me in the general sense, but I was horrified by the laxity of the law laid out in the page at the Saddle Brook Police Department, linked to in your article.Bruce Adelsohn ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 12:08 AM:
On SUVs vs sedans: I drive a 93 Jeep Cherokee Sport (mainly because though I wanted a minivan, I couldn't afford the ones on the lot that day and HAD to purchase).Actually, I've only once ever spun on another axis without control, and managed to avoid hitting anything that time.But when I go to Florida to visit my family, and drive the sedans there, I notice how much closer to the ground I am, and how much more stable.So far, I've also avoided driving faster and cornering harder as a result.So whenever I brake, I have to reach out to stop my purse from thumping over onto the floor and spilling its contents everywhere.You can bet your ass my kids do too.Melbourne has trams too.Stefan Jones ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 12:48 AM:
My Mom did the Soccer Mom Arm thing when we'all were kids.Inquisitive Raven ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 01:07 AM:
I'm a former EMT.Been on accident scenes, been in accidents.One of the messiest scenes I ever responded to involved a car that went over an embankment and rolled.Unfortunately, it's not always possible to work the patient while restrained (CPR comes to mind)."Do you wear a seatbelt?"So that I can chirp, "Yes!"Funny how being depressed makes me rely on the lawfulness of strangers.At the time I had wondered how I didn't impact anyone else.Steve Taylor ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 01:33 AM:
What proportion of US states have compulsory seatbelt legislation?Reading through this thread I keep shaking my head in amazement at the though of there being places where it's legal not to wear a seatbelt.And yeah, I always always wear one.Of course, I was seven years old and living in another state at the time, so I can't claim all of the credit.Not hurting other people didn't seem to be on their agenda anywhere.Signal 30 was the film was the one I was scarred by.That's right, because those people aren't around to tell you their stories.Do they really think they're any better than the people who died when the tower collapsed?What was God doing there, punishing them?"My whole town and all my friends and family and everything I care about was just destroyed, but I lived!More on topic: It's kind of funny to see Grindhouse and then come home to this post.ALWAYS buckle my belt and hunker down.Yes, I (nearly always) insist on wearing a seatbelt in the back of a cab, too, and I'm working on the "nearly".Since it handles like a truck, it's actually served to calm my driving.Yes, I take pictures of just about everything.It is a state law, but AZ lags behind other states in its enforcement.I, too suffered a near fatal collision in 1978.The seatbelt saved my life, and I came out of it with contusions and a broken nose.The seat belt lesson has not as yet been effectivley inculcated among all drivers, despite massive education programs among governmental agencies, insurance companies, and the private sector.Snow, S curve and a speeding driver crossing the center line.Damn simple tech that works.But do set your headrest correctly or your neck will scream at you.Kev ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 03:08 AM:
"I don't feel comfortable in a car until I'm buckled up."As I've said on more than one occasion, I would no more get into a car without a seat belt than I would board a roller coaster without the safety bar engaged.Great post and comments!ER doc, and have worked in trauma centers most of my career.Given, seatbelts can cause injury, but I just have to laugh about people who argue against them.Seatbelt: Man, that's a nasty bruise there, and you need a few stitches.Richard ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 04:05 AM:
My dad was a California Highway Patrolman for 32 years.I'm 44 now and I'm uncomfortable sitting in a parked car without a seatbelt.When he'd been on the force about 20 years he started telling people he'd never unbuckled a dead body.It was still true when he retired."He started it with a PULL; he thought he could stop it with a shove.Our usual intuition is that an object's momentum is related to how hard you push it.The basic safety rule is to never, never put any part of yourself between the boat and the wharf.That's what fenders are for, and the nice crushable wooden wharf.Not your nice crushable legs.Heinlein having been in the Navy, I wouldn't be surprised if he had had some of the same safety rules drilled into him.I'm still too exposed and can't dodge, but at least I'm inside a heavy object.And on being "thrown clear": my mother is yet another of those people who'd be dead if she had been wearing a seatbelt.If your parents work ER or are EMTs, you get dinnertime stories of the people who were in accidents that day.I'd wear a helmet though...Zak ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 04:41 AM:
For most of my life my mother just never could get into the seatbelt habit.Momentum and the Jeep's lovely high center of gravity threw a party that I had no choice but to attend.My mom got seatbelt religion.It oozed and became extra slippery in the rain.Because disabled people exist to serve as a warning to others?What was he steering with (and, no, X5 drivers don't have one; they wouldn't be driving X5s if they did...Madeline F ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 05:12 AM:
Without a seatbelt, you're just perched on a hurtling platform.You live on the road, instead of just inhabiting it.When I was hang gliding, the instructors were crystal clear: let the aluminum break.Every joule of energy that goes into shattering aluminum is a joule that's not going into you...Laurel ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 05:13 AM:
A seatbelt saved my life.Because you will never recover from depression in a morgue, and some of us would rather have you around.Almost no one is keeping enough stopping distance between themselves and the cars behind them.But it's not clear whether they save lives overall.By 1981 there was evidence available from thirteen countries that had passed seat belt laws.Australia and ending with Denmark, West Germany and Switzerland in January 1976.Which makes sense when you think about it.Get a helmet that fits *properly*.Nuala ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 07:10 AM:
I'd love to hear more thoughts about kid seats.I'm going to Wiscon with her this year and I have no idea how we're going to get from the airport to the con hotel safely.And I doubt I'll ever forget the sensation of my baby becoming weightless in my arms during turbulance.That extra 15mph yields 1.Bless me Father, for I have sinned.Hence, all ours were aligned with lots of long, sweeping curves to force the public to pay attention.One of the investigation panel's recommendations in the SQ006 crash at CKS a few years back was that Singapore Airlines should stop making the stewardesses wear heels.All on board survived the crash, but the evacuation was badly botched, several doors never being opened.The result is that I've never been able to get into a car without grabbing behind my offside shoulder.Regarding motorcycles and helmets, well, I'll have to disappoint Jim here...Of course, when you're 18 you're immortal and invincible.But that's an option that depends on finances, of course.One time when I was flying, the woman seated next to me was traveling with her infant on her lap, and she had a little harness which the baby wore, that had a short strap with a loop on it, and the mother's seatbelt was threaded through the loop.This probably wouldn't provide the structural protection of sitting in a carseat designed to withstand some impact, but it might keep the baby from being thrown away from the mother, depending on the quality of the harness.And despite the literature, most car seats can go in most cars.It can't be good for one's back.The baby's more deeply green dad sees that as a good thing but it's not his family that lives in the US.So I'll be using public transport of some sort (which includes taxis) from the airport, not a rental car.I'll keep an eye out for the toddler seat when she's big enough.John ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 09:17 AM:
Here's a nasty little secret the states don't want you to know:
You know all those metal guardrails lining the interstates, the ones that protect you from hitting big immobile objects like signs, bridge pilings or abutments, or flying off into the wild blue yonder?What's the speed limit on the interstate?I'm a highway design engineer; I've seen the FHWA crash test videos of vehicles hitting steel guardrail at 57mph (no I don't know why they didn't use 60mph).It looks like a bomb explosion; shrapnel goes everywhere, and in one video the front wheel was pulled off the truck when it caught a guardrail post.Ripped it right off the axle.Hit them at 75mph and FHWA refuses to say what you can expect to happen.Even the solid concrete median barriers are only tested to 60mph.Hitting one of them at 75mph will send your vehicle back into the lanes (along with a cloud of steel shrapnel) in an unknown direction.Oh yes, almost forgot; guardrail was never tested with SUV's, minivans or the larger multipassenger vans.When FHWA did a crash test with an SUV the vehicle nearly every time vaulted the guardrail, or rolled over it.Yes, there are barriers that have been tested for higher speeds; they are the concrete bridge rails you see that are solid with a sloped face.There's also a really rigid steel barrier that has been tested for higher speeds (IIRC it's 65mph), but it's rarely used on anything but bridge rail retrofits due to its high cost.So next time you're tempted to take the interstate at a really high speed, take a look at that guardrail next to you, and realize it won't even stop your vehicle at 80mph.Here's a quick layperson's explanation of why: The hard shell of the helmet is only half the protective element.And fasten the bloody chin strap, for pity's sake.For example, you'll remember that time the waiter brought you the bill before the food far longer than you'll remember the thousand times it happened the usual order.Can anyone confirm or deny?It's got lots of momentum and can't manoeuvre; the driver can only sit there looking at what she's about to hit.He'd have survived had he worn a seatbelt.The fatal injury was a broken neck from hitting the roof of his truck...If he'd been stuck firmly to the seat, no fatal injury.The other woman was unbelted and ended up in the hospital.The Smith System is alive and well and in use at major companies all over.And more often than not, the driver is offended that I want to wear a belt.My standard reply is, "Sure, I do, I just don't trust all the other drivers."SUV collisions are worse and I'd like to be one of the few on the road."Turns out it's not true and the scale factor has to do mainly with mass and force.The dilemma is different when there's no upside to the uneven cases.She still suffers from survivor's guilt.Dan Pursel ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 11:15 AM:
I'm late to the party, but do have a dog in this hunt.And, thanks for all the "smart people" stories above.Actually, it was NOT automotive safety.I've pretty much seen "it all".Or, they find their own ride elsewhere.If his friend wants to gamble with his own life, that's his lookout, but he ain't gambling with my guy's life.Or, alternately, at least you have time to get used to it.Porsche Cayenne S was great, at the other extreme a Jeep Liberty felt like I'd imagine a Shriner's parade motorized barstool would.It broadly agrees with Wenzel's findings.Mary Smith ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 11:56 AM:
I already posted earlier, but as synchronicity would have it I just heard that a coworker was in a serious bike accident.Several earlier posts mention bicycle helmets.My coworker took a big jump and something went wrong.He shattered a vertebra and has a huge bruise on his chest where his full face helmet hit.The pilot was wearing a 5 point harness.Will the seatbelts, snap buckles, and other components of the system stay in good shape?I've been carping for years about the necessity for highway design to be more mindful of the "monkey brain" factors which cause people to speed.The lap belt held him in his seat, but the shoulder belt didn't tighten on impact, letting him eat the steering wheel, with a broken jaw and major dental damage resulting.Though there seems to be a *blip* in that perception around the 75mph mark.I'm in New York, and I've had some truly dangerous cab drivers, even with my limited experience in taxis.They must know what they're doing."I've been in one accident, that was seemingly "minor" but would have been much, much worse had I not been belted, and I'll explain.That would have been unhappy.That car was a picture of energy absorption; When it stopped off the highway it wasn't so much as leaking fluid and was still running...See, there was this three and a half foot drop off the highway, and I was probably still doing 40mph when I went over...DQ 221: I see your point about that.Probably a tourist from New Jersey.Alex 238: too much straightaway led drivers to lose attention
A condition I believe is called "highway hypnosis" in the US.Mary Aileen 253: "What, you don't trust my driving?"But it is the way to bet.Mary Aileen ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 01:02 PM:
Xopher (271): Mary Aileen 253: "What, you don't trust my driving?"Very true, but I try to avoid confrontation.My way, we usually end up bonding about all the idiots on the road."My question is about the fit of seatbelts and those of us who are, ahem, large.And, in smaller cars with consoles, there's often not enough space to shift right far enough to physically reach down to where the buckle receiver is, especially if you have very long arms that don't bend in the right places.Accepting significant costs (the loss of utility of any specific short car trip worth making) to avoid an objectively minor risk (of an unsecured accident on that specific trip) is not so obviously smart and costless.Right now, my SUV has about 120k (miles) on the clock, and I expect it to live for another 60k.In the past highway engineering focused on making the road as safe as possible; eliminating roadside hazards, flattening slopes, building wide medians and shoulders, providing plenty of superelevation on curves, stopping sight distance, etc.IOW, a road that was designed (and signed) for a 70mph speed limit, for example, appeared to the motorist that it was safe to drive at 80mph, 90mph or even higher.It becomes habit to exceed the speed limit, and since they get away with it (no fines, no crashes) they feel justified in claiming it is a safe practice to continue doing it.SUV's are women with children.It doesn't matter that SUV's often have terrible stability problems in crashes or just avoiding an obstacle; to them their perception is what's important.Lexapro is our friend (and I wear my seatbelts every day).I'll be driving a bit better from now on, I think.Also, the Concourse Hotel has a complimentary shuttle from the airport.I'm coming from out of town and won't have a car.Here's a link to relative safety of vehicles.Sorry to shout, but that is important.You can make any vehicle in any classification safer by going slower, but I'd bet, based on engineering experience, it would pay larger dividends for SUVs.Is this real, or just an urban legend?"The 'design speed' of a highway is typically 5mph higher than the posted speed, yet another case of engineers trying to build in even more safety factors in the geometrics of the road.There were few, if any rural interstates designed for 80mph, however.In many cases the 'design speed' and the posted speed are one and the same, especially when there are serious design constraints that limit how the road can be laid out.Yet another example of why Making Light is the coolest party on the internet.I'd rather go around them than over them.Paul Bowen ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 04:26 PM:
Smashing piece James, thank you.Getting thrown from the wreck was never a good plan, but it "saved" lives in the dark ages because car safety mostly didn't exist.Did he drop straight down?When I flew helicopters, I always wore my seatbelt, especially if it was a hot summer day and I flew with the doors off to get some fresh air."Mythbusters" demonstrate, with verve and vigor, what being "thrown free" at 50 miles an hour looks like to Buster.The road didn't frighten me half as much as the other drivers.Energy is force times distance (which works out to be proportional to mass times the square of speed).If you're pushing a big slow object around with muscle power, the immediate limiting factor is probably "how hard can I push this?"Igs ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 05:47 PM:
Great article!Your comment had reminded me of a study I'd seen, and gave me a chance to bring up the prisoner's dilemma.It was just that you didn't like the kinds of fatal accident you thought you could get into?There's evidence seat belt laws haven't done much good overall (other people have already mentioned John Adam's work (another link), but while it's not clear that bicycle helmets do any overall good, it is fairly clear that making them compulsary is a bad thing.Well, not passenger cars; I'm not sure about all motor vehicles.In those days the steering column was a single steel rod starting low down in the front of the car and angling back and up to a point just in front of the driver's chest.That piece of barstock was topped with a large acorn nut that held the steering wheel in place.Then we get to go extract people.What proportion of US states have compulsory seatbelt legislation?One (New Hampshire, where I live) has no seatbelt law.All your questions are answered here .Pick up a seatbelt extender.They're a length of nylon webbing with a male fitting at one end and a female fitting at the other.Therefore I can ignore the laws."Just out of curiosity, have you ever seen a belted passenger who's seat has been dislodged from its rails?The energy involved in doing that much structural damage was energy that didn't go into squishing the patient, so it all worked out.It isn't just in the Outback.For example, a human body is approximately eight inches thick, front to back.That too is true, but misleading.The doctor in the ER has to do it.WWII, stuck in a burning bomber over Norway with his parachute shot to shreds, decided it was better to fall than to burn.This sort of thing has happened more than once: See the Free Fall Research Page.One thing that hasn't been listed, in addition to roll cages, crumple zones, airbags, and all the rest, for improving survival rates in serious accidents: an innovation (since 1972 and always improving) has been fast and efficient EMS.Those are the folks who study how to make videogame players do exactly what the game designers want them to do, while giving the illusion of total freedom of action.Amanda ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 06:13 PM:
2003 I graduated from highschool, and so did my long time friend Laura.Laura's brother was driving her around so she could make Avon deliveries.Crossing an intersection, they were hit by a drunk driver who failed to notice a stop sign, on a road that he traveled along daily to get home.He being at that time a relatively new driver, a teenage male and therefore just a bit of an idiot, he drove into the back of a stationary car at about forty miles per hour (which mysteriously became five miles per hour by the time our father asked for the details, except not for long as our father isn't stupid).Driver ran a red light at 30MPH.Without missing a beat, he responded "If they did, then people couldn't get thrown out of them."Otherwise they would have had to find a more expensive way to show that something was happening, or else be stuck with a much less visually interesting show.If you're worried about crochet hooks, get some that are made of plastic or wood.There's a reason why the cabin crew do regular seatbelt patrols nowadays.There was a lot of screaming.I've seen is when there's been a recent snowfall, and there's a hardened crust of snow on top of cars and trucks.It goes flying up in the air, then comes down and frags on the windshield of the car behind them.As far as anyone could tell, the semi didn't even notice what happened.MassPike also failed to notice that they'd just blinded the following cars.IIRC, the difference in their travel times was all of ten or twenty minutes.In the meantime, the more aggressive driver had constantly ignored the driving laws, and created numerous unsafe situations that could have turned into accidents.It's not just their "I've got more money and better lawyers than God" style of moving through traffic, it's the way their vehicles are just the right color to blend into falling rain, or a fog bank, or the landscape at twilight (and they don't turn their lights on in daytime any more than they signal when they change lanes.It instantly turned my thinking around.Near the Hell's Angels' territory on the Lower East Side I saw a Harley rider with an extremely loud bike cruise slowly down a narrow street, creating enough vibration to set off the car alarms in every vehicle parked on that block.JanetM (191), thanks for the details, such as they are.DON3k (203), I'm glad you survived that, and boo hiss on your insurance company for not paying up, the welshers.Can I ask who insured you?Wim (219), I understand the discomfort of being up in the air in a wobbly vehicle, but my own monkey brain thinks that if I can see trouble coming, I have a better chance of dodging it.If I left what I thought was an appropriate stopping distance, some other car would speed up and pull into that space.And no matter what else was going on, idiots would sit so close on my tail that I could see the individual bugs on their bumpers.Holland Tunnel approaches, because there'd always be jerks trying to jump the line by driving in the breakdown lane.Sitting between two lanes demonstrated that I wasn't trying to jump the line, and preserved my spot in my proper lane, but let me get out of the breakdown lane if an emergency vehicle was approaching.They'd honk and wave their fists as though I were the one violating the law.SUVs) that were trying to cut in at the head of the line to get onto the Brooklyn Bridge from the FDR.The intended message was "How much is that paint job worth to you?"You still get idiots, of course.I'm going to dash out in front of them.Here's the one that really bothers me: the police not observing the traffic laws.NYC's no right on red unless otherwise posted.When we were living on Staten Island, I started to see the police briefly stopping at red lights, then turning if there was no oncoming traffic.It feels like the whole region could use a refresher course in the rules of the road.Gdr (230): "Seatbelts undoubtedly save the lives of people wearing them in crashes.But it's not clear whether they save lives overall."Seatbelts do nothing to combat cancer or heart disease.I'm not sure I give a damn about "the John Adams paper," whatever that is.In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't.There's way too much evidence, over too much time, from too many diverse sources, that says they do.Xopher (271): "I've often thought Jim's safety posts should be printed up as pamphlets."About 90 seconds after turning the key, if either of the two in front are unbelted, a loud beeping alert repeats over and over.Our Escape has a lot of neat safety features and you can do most of the important stuff (like turning on the rear wipers or adjusting the lights) completely by touch.Escape is just big enough for its size to do some good.We have to have a heavy vehicle with 4WD and good clearance to get out of our driveway in the winter, but we don't want to pay for the gas to haul superfluous cubage.File that one under "varieties of negligence I'm surprised aren't illegal."Does anyone here know why buses don't have seatbelts?So if you shove on the opposite side of it at the same force level for the same amount of time, it should stop dead (that is, return to its old vector), because you've exactly canceled what you did before.To which all I gots to say is, thank goodness I don't have any nephews yet.Bex ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 08:02 PM:
File that one under "varieties of negligence I'm surprised aren't illegal."He got a few cuts, nothing more.The SUV never stopped or, apparently, noticed.If he keeps writing them, he'll eventually have a book.Yes, and that would be great, but the pamphlets would be something you can hand out to strangers without making them pay you.My Mom was a school bus driver and was horrified at the thought of installing seatbelts on her bus: there would be nothing she could do to prevent the small minority of vicious thugs from using the buckles as weapons.April 15, 2007, 09:09 PM:
In regards to school buses, I seem to recall watching a program on automotive safety (on the Discovery Channel) several years ago that explained as school buses are generally built like tanks, except with more padding and seats.Large school buses are heavier and distribute crash forces differently than do passenger cars and light trucks.The school bus occupant fatality rate of 0.Wheelbase and height does not compare.Son and I both were wearing seatbelts.There is very little engineering that goes into a regulatory (black on white) speed limit.While designers use a "design speed" that speed is only used to determine the minimum conditions for the worst situation.The result is the highest speed at which 85 percent of the traffic is moving rounded to the nearest 5 mph increment.They vary as one might expect.It is not all bad that speed limits are set this way.It is almost impossible to enforce a speed limit that is low, as drivers subconsciously feel comfortable at a higher speed.Unfortunately operator skills have likely not improved at the same pace.Those actually consider physics and the geometry of the road.However, they are the safe speed for ALL vehicles so a passenger car is usually able to "take" the curve much faster than a loaded semi truck would.The belts are designed for an "average" driver and therefore don't work by default for many of us.My agency (State DOT) sees the biggest number of fatal crashes in the single vehicle run off the road crash.Driver impairment typically plays a big role in these crashes.While alcohol is the impairment most people think off, drowsy driving is a huge issue.California, I went to the rental car desk and the nice lady behind the counter asked for my driver's license.When she saw it was from MA, she said, very seriously and with a slight note of terror in her voice: "That thing you do there, you can't do that here!Boston drivers are still, I think, the worst in the US, but now there is much more competition.Xopher ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 10:04 PM:
Rob 323: If you're a boomer, maybe not.Maximum size font, two words above and below: "SEAT BELTS", "SAVE LIVES".Alan Braggins (305), I don't consider any of those assertions to have been substantiated yet
Martinelli (309), that's a small masterpiece of compressed exposition.After a while, it would get hard to ignore.When he demanded to know why I'd stopped at the light, I said, "Because it turned red."Given conditions on the Mass Pike that day, I would never have guessed it was illegal.It's an old freeway, right?From when they were still working out the design principles?People who can't clear the snow off the top of their cars either need to get smaller cars, or take mass transit.Most of the seatbelts I've seen have had their fasteners attached by sewing the belting material."DaveL (330), so the jackrabbit left turn is Boston's fault?Thank all powers that be, no one plowed into me.What I would like to see is accountability for that.It would be nice if the premium I paid for a car with them made sense.In traffic, a lot of it is negotiating with other drivers for space that you or they want.If you're already all the way over to the right, it's your lane, they can pass you.Bex ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 10:48 PM:
Given conditions on the Mass Pike that day, I would never have guessed it was illegal.It turned out that I had cracked a vertebra and had chronic back pain for several years and possibly forever, though it's gotten a lot better recently.He was knocked down, broke his ankle, and hit his head.Fred ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 10:54 PM:
As has been alluded to in some posts, but is worth repeating:
I'll quote an aquaintance:
"If you have an accident of any consequence or roll your car, every damn thing in the car will hit you in the head, probably several times."Bruce Adelsohn ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 10:55 PM:
Personally, I would agree with the anecdotal evidence that Boston drivers are at least among the most insanely dangerous in the country.In addition, we pulled city statistics on accident frequency from Allstate Insurance.It would have been nice to see more definite language there.So when I drive my car, everybody is belted up before I shift into drive.No damage to my van and its steel step bumper, small damage to their cars.The fourth time, I was hit in the right rear wheel well by a Toyota that was totaled.Nothing was wrong with my van or me.Total tangent: Someone explained to me once that police officers tailgate with bright headlights, on small roads late at night, so they can read your license plate.My theory (which I love to repeat; sorry if it's repeated here) is that every part of the country has a different type of bad driver, and the worst problems come when you take a bad driver out of their element.Some local cliches I personally know:
Floridians don't understand that some roads curve; Montrealers start before the light turns green and (as a result) stop on yellow; Boston drivers will pull across four lanes of traffic and not think twice, because that's how the roads work there; Texans measure the distance from one place to another in beers.To get the full list, you'd have to ask each state about their neighbors, of course.Also the only type of accident to date that someone I know has died in*.They were wearing seatbelts.Horrific' comes to mind.JB ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 11:11 PM:
I caused an accident about eight months ago.Everyone involved was wearing a seatbelt and no one involved was seriously injured.However, half an hour later, I was sitting unbuckled in my vehicle waiting for the tow driver to be ready.Had I still been sitting there unbuckled, I'm sure I'd have been thrown into, or through, the windshield at the impact.Wearing your seatbelt in a parked car can save your life.Contact the folx at Instant Attitudes?Those in the '93 Geo were also long enough.Daniel Boone ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 11:24 PM:
Regarding the blog on bad police driving, I love that idea."Pedestrians have the right of way!"He then began to lecture me sternly that it is never appropriate to yell at a policeman.Georgina ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 11:28 PM:
I might have missed a posting, but this is in response to (Wendy was it?Not only is it tough to find them for all attachment types (and almost every car manufacturer uses a different one), but many of the car manufacturers won't offer them because they aren't safe (for a number of reasons, most involving where the load bearing crosses the body).I've done it when I've ridden in vehicles with malfunctioning belts.The other three people in the car were wearing seatbelts, but my sister, with parents who were resentful of seat belt laws, was not wearing hers.My sister survived only because one of the other three knew how to do CPR.She also had some mental health problems a few years after that, spent some time in a psychiatric hospital, and after that became an alcoholic.My dad, however, still refuses to wear a seat belt, and my mom will only wear the lap belt, even when in the front seat.George Hunt ::: (view all by) ::: April 15, 2007, 11:56 PM:
I've rolled a Hyndai four and a half times and wound up pointed back the way I was coming from with the roof on the passenger's side pushed down below the dash (no passenger, thank ghod).Total injuries, seat belt burns on the chest and shoulder, scalp burns from bouncing off the roof, road rash on the left arm from where it kept going out the left window as the car rolled.Comment from the county sheriff, "We usually have to call for the body bag and M.It's well Adams admits this, or we would assume that he is demented.The argument here is not that seatbelt laws* save lives (a matter on which I have no opinion), it's that seatbelts save lives.Boston scares the bodily fluids from me; my peripheral vision is even worse since I started wearing progressive lenses, and left turns across my lane from two lanes to the right could have me hitting someone, a situation I've not been in for over twenty years, and one I hope to avoid for several more twenties.Even if you died with your seat belt on, the grief never stops.If you weren't wearing it, the grief and anger never stop.What's going on behind us is someone else's problem.So peripheral vision isn't as much of an issue unless someone speeds UP to cut you off...Ryan Waxx ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 12:26 AM:
lv th SV bshng n hr.SV wnrs hv phn cnvrstns whl drvng.Bt t's nt pltclly crrct t bsh hndcppd ppl, nd t *s* PC t bsh SV drvrs.Something I'd like to share is: even if you think you are fine after a significant crash...Marna Nightingale ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 12:42 AM:
I've been for some insane reason slacking off about wearing my belt in cabs lately.Thank you for reminding me to mend my ways.My ex should never be allowed to drive, having crashed my car (lightly) about 4 times and totaling two of his own since, none of which I or my daughter was present for.The entire back had crumpled, right up to where my daughter's car seat was installed.The car seat was unharmed, my ex walked away with some PT for misc.April 16, 2007, 12:52 AM:
I was sufficiently indoctrinated about seat belts in childhood that I always feel uneasy about sitting in a car unbelted, even if it's parked or the key isn't even in the ignition.Luxton ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 01:26 AM:
There are billboards around here speaking of a law that children must ride in booster seats until they're 4'9" tall.Which is weird, because looking it up, I now see that it's a WA law...Extenders can be tricky to purchase, since (as has been mentioned) they are different for every make of car.You might try to get a universal one, but I'm not sure how "universal" it really would be.That might be a good way to try one out.He bounced off the front bumper, rolled up the bonnet into the windscreen, and then I think fell off the front of the car when all forward momentum had ceased.The car's radiator had been pushed right up against the engine, and it wasn't going anywhere.One day, I was driving through the neighborhood to a friend's house instead of walking, and I noticed the girl I was giving a ride to wasn't using her seatbelt."Put your seatbelt on," I said, slowing down.She gave me a look and told me it was only two blocks, what could happen?In Japan, only the people in the front must wear seatbelts.But when we got the phone call that there had been an accident, Mum gave the news herself, and it was infinitely less bad news than the news someone else would have had to break.She'd hit a slippery patch on a motorway, turned the car over and into a ditch, and totalled it when it hit a fence post after rolling.She was a passenger in a car driven by her boyfriend, she hadn't bothered with a belt as it was only a few minutes' drive.The only good that came of it was that I got religion about defensive driving and turned into a decent car driver after several months of being a lousy truck driver.Sadly, they sometimes take out another vehicle when they go, and the truck always wins, even if the driver doesn't.Not only will you mess up your toy, and possibly yourself, but you will cause no end of grief for the trucker by making him waste precious time dealing with the ensuing accident; time which he could otherwise be spending asleep or driving around lost.SUV but is there so that the driver can brake safely.While you might not give a rat's about the driver's safety bonus or the grief the ensuing accident will cause him, the point is moot because you'll probably be beyond caring.Atchoafe wigthats, there were downsides (that dinner conversation, those photos) but plenty of upsides, including going to forensics conferences.Ever walk along an empty, boring path and suddenly you're 200 meters further along?Problem is, if you are needed to make a sudden decision, your brain can't instantly boot you up.Those people are all roused out of whatever they were doing, at any hour, and sent out in any weather to dick around on scenes that are crawling with all manner of hazards.It's easy to point and scoff and say, "Oh, ha ha, that dumbass deserved what was coming to him!"John ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 04:32 AM:
"The Engineer":
It's not a conspiracy, it's just not something that state DOT's or FHWA tells people, that the guardrails won't protect you in the event of a very high speed crash.That's getting up into the range of an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary proof.Had we not been wearing our seatbelts, we probably would have been ejected out of the car (like everything else not bolted down was) onto the surrounding sharp rocks and downed tree trunks, if not crushed by the car.Alan Braggins ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 06:37 AM:
P.And no, I'm saying there is some evidence of a link, and some reason to believe that it may be causal.Everyone will end up happier.Everyone will end up sadder.I've got to go and do the dishes, and then God help me, I've got to do a couple of hours of overtime.Maybe I'll find something interesting here when I come back?The only way to get a car out again was to walk to the next farmhouse and ask to be dragged out with a tractor.The big bumpers are there to say, "If we have an accident, you'll take a lot more damage than I will."Mercedes some months ago.My car needed a new rear bumper, a new coat of paint on the rear door and a new rear door lock.I've read the article, and I feel it is, well, full of it.That way all drivers, realizing any crash at all will probably be very hazardous, will be much more courteous and careful vehicular operators."Did that cop just make a left turn on red into oncoming traffic?"I'm gonna try the experiment: policepolice.SUV but is there so that the driver can brake safely.Early on in my driving life, I did cut in front of a big truck, and almost at that very instant the traffic on the highway came to a sudden stop.I've got a longer response planned to try and address some of the points made; I'll see if I have time to put it together tonight.Smeed's law suggests that road deaths are largely independent of particular safety measures.This line of thinking is not an argument for not wearing a seatbelt: the evidence that you'll be safer if you do is very strong, so long as you manage to avoid the temptation to take more risks.Alan (120), how do Teva sandals hold up?So it could be worse, but it could be better, I guess.Keep in mind that what we're talking about is survivability in a limited type of crash: the kind where the main cause of death is inability to get
out of a wrecked plane quickly.After the car racing I watched some superbike racing.All the above comments about skill and speed apply in spades 'cos they're bike racers and, by definition, crazy.Isle of Man where they race bikes on the public roads.I'll happily say that any 'evidence' 'proving' that helmets don't improve outcomes is spurious, and Ben Roethlisberger was an idiot before he fell off his Harley.That's nice for you, but not everyone behaves the same way, or has such accurate introspection.Going over, he looks and sees that, under the cars, there's no dog.Thinking 'All this, AND now there's an injured dog somewhere out there' he went to inspect the tail, and then realised that it was a toupee.We had our seatbelts on and would likely have gone at least into the windshield.But that's not what I wanted to mention...The impact caused the back of my car to bend in and down (she was the only driver attempting to do 80 mph when everyone else was doing 45).It was in a hundred pieces on the road afterward.The moral of the story: don't drive around with loose heavy objects randomly sitting in your car...It would at least slow any potential missles.Thanks for a great discussion.Obviously if a bowling ball is lodged in someone's chest cavity that's kind of apparent, but what about something more generic such as a briefcase, laptop computer, insulated drinking cup, or even an umbrella?DaveL ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 09:52 AM:
John D.Macdonald wrote: The argument here is not that seatbelt laws* save lives (a matter on which I have no opinion), it's that seatbelts save lives.Malcolm Gladwell wrote an article for the New Yorker (Wrong Turn) which is mostly about airbags versus seatbelts (i.While Adams doesn't mention which countries didn't introduce a law, I'm going to presume that he means the USA since (1) his data is from the 1970s when the USA didn't have seatbelt laws, and (2) the USA has a huge number of cars and drivers which provide a large statistical mass when averaged in with other countries.In the meantime, I certainly hope that Adams personally wears his seatbelt.I'm not disagreeing with you here, the evidence is suggestive but by no means compelling.Anyway, do you guys blog?Thank you, Jim, for your excellent entry, and thanks to everyone for contributing.I'll also make sure that there are no objects that could become dangerous missiles in the cab.I've been in no collisions that caused any damage during the 40+ years I've been driving.Thanks also for the tip that anchor points for shoulder belts can be lowered in new cars.Let me tell you a little story about the effect of laws.One winter day we got called away to an automobile accident, car vs.He's pretty much okay but wins a ride to the hospital anyway.The cop tries to give him a ticket for driving without a license, and he becomes Very Very Upset: "What do you mean 'driving without a license'?There is a group of people who will always wear their seatbelt, regardless of any law.The law doesn't compell me to wear a seatbelt, but I always do.Back when seatbelts were an option at added expense, my father (an engineer) had them installed and we always wore them.The laws will actually affect a small percentage of people.What will affect them far more than the remote possibility of a small fine is the social pressure to Not Be An Idiot.If Adams is correct about risk compensation in this case, then not only should seatbelt laws not be passed, but the public awareness campaigns should be discontinued.Daniel Martin ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 11:09 AM:
File that one under "varieties of negligence I'm surprised aren't illegal."It may not be illegal per se, but in NJ, motorists are explicitly liable as a civil matter for any damage caused by snow or ice flying from their vehicle.In the NJ Driver manual, under the heading "Snow and Ice":
Before driving in cold weather, let the vehicle warm up.Always make sure the vehicle has windshield wiper fluid.He says Boston's the worst he's seen.It covers how engineers can (and should) design facilities for the surrounding environment, and covers the basics for traffic calming as well.As for vertical objects near the street helping to slow down traffic, yes, that's true.Wales scraped the side and broke the mirror of my rental car.April 16, 2007, 11:55 AM:
As to guardrail safety, or lack thereof, one thing nobody seems to have taken into account when designing the things is what happens when the car's impact takes place right where the guardrail begins, such as the start of an exit ramp.Leva Cygnet ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 11:57 AM:
I've been in two accidents, both times I was very glad to be wearing a car.Dishwasher fell off a truck in the next lane over and bounced in front of me.Apparently I drove over to the emergency lane after spinning on autopilot, but have no memory of this.She came to a dead stop from a canter, I didn't, and launched over her head.When I got up, my pinky was on backwards ...The new ones have movable heads on the ends (they are big square plates of metal) that when hit, turn the guardrail into big strings of curly metal.Until the critters learn the rules of the road, everyone in my vehicle gets buckled up.Do British and Australian people talk about that, or is it a purely American thing?Must think some more on this...Shakespearian aside: Do not fear for my driving record, what with noticing all these highway safety devices; I don't drive, thanks to what gets called "global reversals," among other things.About pedestrian and bicycle vs car fatalities: the big error I'm seeing in the paper cited above is that they are being treated as if they occur in the same kind of environments as car vs car fatalities.Those are attenuators (the water filled cylinders at the end of a concrete barrier).They work just fine unless they freeze, and are used where there's no room for the usual barrier end treatments.As for the ones that curve downward into the ground at the end, I have two words for those:
Ski Jumps
Here in NC we often bury the end of guardrail in the back slope of a ditch if there's one handy, which keeps vehicles from leaping over the rail.It's posted 'no right turn on red'.Some people get it really bad, but in the worst case you can resect the nerve and have a numb thigh; the nerve is purely sensory.Mine was probably from tight clothing and walking too hard, and it's mostly numbness with occasional pain, not bad enough to do anything more than watch out for behaviors that cause flareups.To make things go a little faster, she takes me to work.For those who may know Columbus, Ohio roads, we were southbound on Olentangy River Road on the divided portion, we had the green light at the Thomas Lane intersection (Riverside Hospital) when a sedan in the northbound lanes pulls an illegal left turn in front of us.My partner managed to dump enough speed so that the airbags in the Voyager did not deploy.We nailed the rear of the sedan's trunk.My partner being a first responder, she asked if I was ok then went and checked everyone else.It turns out the lady who was driving the sedan was late for an appointment with her physician.They were all of this particular intersection...We ended up going to the chiropracter that evening before we went shopping.Bill Wilson ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 02:13 PM:
Just a quick note to say you've written an excellent post.And for those who have been in a MVA where they'd "have been killed if wearing a seatbelt," start buckling up now.As far as the seatbelt laws go, to the extent you're talking about protecting an adult from his own decisions, I think you guys are using justifications that you would never accept in other situations.My husband had seen loads of unsafe driving in a fairly short time (including a woman nursing a baby while driving), and thus yelled at a guy driving on a major road in Chicago at twilight with his unrestrained son on his lap "learning how to drive".Bike helmets
Why do I always wear a helmet when biking, if there are any hard surfaces anywhere on the route (i.No fractures, no stiches needed, not even a 'chiseled spam' road rash*.Except he lost about 20 IQ points.His brother put law school on hold and flew out to California to help, but even with his brother shadowing him Patrick couldn't handle grad school.He didn't return to school in the next 2 years.He said that a few minutes he'd watched a kid go by on another bike in shorts, tennies, teeshirt, no helmet, and thought that while the kid might be more comfortable, he was also a lot more likely to get serious damage.But then in 1998 my little brother died, not in anything car related, but now that I know from experience the hell and misery that my family would go through if I died, I wear my seatbelt for them.It was an instant fatality for the deer and I developed a bruise on my arm like I had been hit with a baseball.Even though the only decelleration was due to my braking the contents of my car were thourghly scrambled and glass splinters were everywhere except in my underware.I've been in, but since I can't tell the future I bet that wearing it is worth the tiny inconvenience.ABS brakes may have resulted in some skidding, but a shorter stopping distance.In my (not insignificant) experience, a motorcycle helmet affords not only protection from head injuries in an accident, but serves to generally improve rider comfort by blocking wind and rain, reducing noise (earplugs are good too) and providing protection from random bits of road debris.The law gives me extra leverage to get the recalcitrant into their seat belts.Try and not believe it for the next few days, because it just doesn't apply here."To be fair, my incentive to drive this way is purely mercenary; I live in an urban area in MA, and I got my license mere months before I became the primary driver on my car, so my insurance rates are hellacious.Janine ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 03:49 PM:
While I always wear my seatbelt, my truck is infamous for amount of stuff I shove into the passenger seat.Until the critters learn the rules of the road, everyone in my vehicle gets buckled up.Oklahoma, and a very small percentage take it...Buckling your seatbelt takes a few seconds.Not one of them has addressed the point, made again and again here, that an unsecured driver or passenger is a potentially lethal hazard to other people riding in the car.Wearing seatbelts increases the hazards to pedestrians and bikers?And here's a hint: when the main authority you're citing solemnly argues that seatbelts do nothing to lower the general mortality rate aside from reducing injuries incurred during automobile accidents, it's time to either find a different authority, or change your opinion.Yeah, driving a car is liberating.You don't get to have the one without the other.It wasn't that *he* was going to deliberately drive contrary to his own safety lectures, but more of a warning: most of the population would be driving in a less than optimal manner, and therefore not to be surprised either at what they did or if he felt it necessary to take extreme measures in response.Do you always drive alone, or do you take passengers in your car?He could understand TV shows but not lectures.Not directly relevant to your story, but this is a common cause of "dementia" in older people, misdiagnosed as early stage Alzheimer's, but can be caused by something as simple as turning ones head too fast or bumping against a cabinet door, or of course, a fall.Something I no longer do since moving to a different area of DOT engineering.I've actually been in what was close to being a car vs bicycle collision in Seattle, in similar circumstances: we were making a left on to Lake Washington Blvd at the east end of the Washington Park Arboretum, and a helmetted and padded woman came down off the bit of Lake Washington Blvd east of (and up hill of) Madison and blew through a red light substantially above the automobile speed limit, then flipped us off as she cut around us and continued on her merry way.It must be an American thing.Now I'm all set for any smaller friends that I may be transporting in the future.Not as much of an impression as it made on his helmet, of course...Seatbelts won't protect you against that, either.Back when I was in high school, my mother picked me and my sister up early to go to the dentist.I'm convinced that the only reason we stopped (without the metal step going thru the windshield), was that the truck had exerted sufficient pressure on the front of the car to give us back our traction.Clifton Royston ::: (view all by) ::: April 16, 2007, 06:26 PM:
467: I beg to disagree.Ministry of Transportation in my province, and from the stories she tells, a really astonishing number of people who write in believe they should be free to do all those things without penalty and the government is infringing on their freedom by not letting them.Because my wife, Eva, had never been to New Orleans, we figured to fly into New Orleans, stay for a day, then drive to Baton Rouge, where we'd stay with the kids, and go on a couple of day trips back to New Orleans.On the other hand, the civility disappeared as soon as we got close enough to the city (at eithe |
